Salvador Villalobos on Walking the Red Road, the Power of Ayahuasca, and the Vision of Hayulima Spiritual Sanctuary

Today's guest is my dear and beloved brother, Salvador Villalobos. Salvador has been walking the Camino Rojo and working intimately with the sacred plant medicines of the Americas, and their traditions, for over 25 years. Originally from Mexico, but now living in the breathtaking cloud forest of Mindo, Ecuador. Salvador is one of the guardians of Hayulima Spiritual Sanctuary; a beautiful and sacred land which welcomes people of all backgrounds to reconnect with nature and themselves, and to safely experience the healing potential of master plant medicines such as Ayahuasca, San Pedro, Peyote, and other ancestral ceremonies.

In this episode Salvador and I explore his life long journey into the profound realms of plant medicines and the healing that can be found through ceremony. We discuss the importance of forming a genuine relationship to the natural world around us, the process of meeting and receiving the blessings of his Elders, the transformational power of Ayahuasca, and advice for the younger generation who wishes to work with these sacred plant medicines. We also venture into Salvador's journey of now being a leader of Vision Quest, a potent ritual involving fasting, prayer, and introspection which serves as a doorway to self-discovery and spiritual growth.

Beyond the realms of his personal journey, our conversation navigates towards Salvador's vision for the future. His love for his daughters and his aspiration to sculpt a better world for them shines through as he shares the story behind the creation of Hayulima Spiritual Sanctuary and the vision he holds for this land.

Recorded December 2022 at Hayulima Spiritual Sanctuary | Mindo, Ecuador

0:00 Intro
5:59 Journey of Spirituality in Mexico
21:15 Finding Purpose in Nature and Plant Medicines
30:48 Reconnecting to our True Essence through Ancestral Practices
44:00 Guidance for the Younger Generation Working with Plant Medicines
54:39 Developing a Healthy Relationship With Ayahuasca
1:02:46 The Power of Ayahuasca
1:15:01 Ayahuasca's Meaning and the Power of Song
1:32:21 The Tradition and Power of Vision Quest
2:12:00 The Creation and Vision of Hayulima Spiritual Sanctuary
2:25:27 The Gift of Fatherhood

Watch on YouTube:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GmLQguJPOzk

Visit Hayulima's website if you wish to join one of  their retreats and learn more:
https://www.hayulima.com/

Follow Hayulima on Instagram

Visit AlchemyofClarity.Com to learn more about and join my upcoming Ceremonial Psilocybin Retreats in Portugal this April & May 2024

Podcast Music Produced by David Noriega


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Transcript

Salvador Villalobos: 0:00

For me, humbleness is to recognize who I am and what I am standing for, what I have been doing, and no more, no less. This is what I carry, this is who I am, accepting my reality completely and I'm with respect.

Andrew Askaripour: 0:30

Peace everyone. Welcome to Masters of Ceremony. I'm your Andrew Askaripour, r, and today's episode is easily one of the most meaningful conversations I've ever gotten to share on this platform, and that is because we are speaking with my dear, beloved brother, salvador Villalobos. Salvador has been walking the red path and working intimately with the sacred plant medicines of the Americas and their traditions for over 25 years. Originally from Mexico, but now living in the breathtaking cloud forests of Mindo, Ecuador, salvador is one of the guardians of Hayulima spiritual sanctuary, a beautiful and sacred land which welcomes people of all backgrounds to reconnect with nature and themselves and to safely experience the healing potential of master plant medicines and other ancestral ceremonies.

Andrew Askaripour: 1:15

Salvador is a dear friend of mine. We first met back in 2016 when he led me through my very first ayahuasca experience, and since then we've become close friends. He is family to me. He has been such a constant source of inspiration and support in my life, and I know that anyone who knows Salvador will say the same. He is someone who leads his life and leads his ceremonies in such an open, loving and compassionate way that just sitting down and having a conversation with Salvador usually is medicine enough.

Andrew Askaripour: 1:50

So I'm so happy to have recorded this beautiful discussion on location during my most recent visit, in which I was living there for six months supporting the family, supporting the ceremonial work, and to film this podcast for those who are watching on YouTube or want to watch on YouTube was such a big blessing for me. I think it's so beautiful to get to see the trees blowing in the background and to see the pond and the two cans flying by. I really encourage you guys to watch this video and receive the beautiful medicine that that land and that this person has to offer. So I really hope you guys enjoy tune in after the episode to learn more information about how Ayulema and how you can join one of these retreats or just take a visit there, and I really hope you guys love this episode.

Andrew Askaripour: 2:39

Brother, thank you so much for joining me on the podcast finally, yeah, finally thanks for inviting me.

Salvador Villalobos: 2:45

It's good that we've come together now.

Andrew Askaripour: 2:49

Yes, of course, and we're here in paradise. Yeah, .

Salvador Villalobos: 2:56

Yeah, it's a really well wonderful place, surrounded by nature. So you choose this spot. Yes, very special. Next, to this pond.

Andrew Askaripour: 3:11

Yeah, we were just saying before we started that we should be spending more time here, more often.

Salvador Villalobos: 3:18

Yeah, maybe to have a All these chairs set up is so special.

Andrew Askaripour: 3:25

Yeah, well, that's the blessing of here in Mindo, Ecuador Hayulima , where we are, that there's so much space on this spiritual sanctuary that you've created here and that so many others have helped create. And what an honor it is to finally have this conversation here and to speak about some of the work that's been happening here and also speak about some of your life and how you got to this point.

Salvador Villalobos: 3:50

Yeah, well, thank you, and for me it's a pleasure to share. I mean, for me it's not like my other life of each one is my own story. You know, sometimes I don't feel that my life is that special, but anyway I'm sharing whatever you feel that it's interesting to share of my own life and maybe in some way I mean this can be record for my daughters, or even for myself and for those that maybe can be inspired for some things that can happen in the life well, in this case, of my own life.

Andrew Askaripour: 4:40

So thanks for taking the time to invite me Of course my pleasure, I'm sure, being here , having your own land that's over 113 hectares. I'm sure every now and then you get hit with this surreal wave of like how did I get here? How did I get here leading and supporting all these beautiful ceremonies and vision quest and the process of so many others? I'm sure at some points it must be a little bit surreal for you.

Salvador Villalobos: 5:11

Well, I think that, since I have been given the steps and I knew that eventually I'm going to get to the place, I have been in different other places, but anyway, I mean it is completely real, but yeah, it's so special to be here and I mean it's a dream that come true, you know, because somehow I knew that it was the direction and, in some way, the goal of my life to be living in nature.

Andrew Askaripour: 5:55

So here I am, you know, yeah, I hope, beautiful. Well, how was it for you in your early years? Maybe you can describe where you're from in Mexico, how it was growing up as a child and, yeah, just your upbringing in general.

Salvador Villalobos: 6:13

Okay, as you said, I'm from Mexico, originally from Guadalajara, zapopan. More specific, I have a normal childhood, I think. You know I'm the second child of three, my older sister, marcella, and my youngest brother, osvaldo. So we grew together, my parents, salvador and Guadalupe Lupita I mean normal family and my childhood was normal, like any child in the city. I mean each one has their own specific way, you know the way of their own family, but you know it was a very tranquil child. I mean playful and that you know. But it was more like my early teenage. You know my tendency was always like nature. You know I like to go to explore with some friends in the park. The house where we were living was in the limits of the city, so then it was like a forest or well, it was like a park that was part of this forest. You know I like to spend time there. You know like exploring and that.

Salvador Villalobos: 7:56

So since childhood I feel that I think, like any child has connection with nature, I don't know. And well, I think that one thing takes to the other, you know, I mean I went to school, friends riding bikes, skateboarding, you know those things that any normal city child you know, or young guy, do you know. But it was well in my connection, let's say with my spirituality. Well, I grew up Catholic, like most of people in Mexico, you know, but well, it was not like very strict and my family was really free, you know. But I feel this connection with God. But then I become, let's say, like 14 years old. I get disappointed, I think, but I didn't understand at that point. What was you know, but 16, more or less is. I mean, with a friend, I hear about the mushrooms and then I have the chance to take some mushrooms with friends, you know, and the first experience was just to get out from the area. So it was not that spiritual connection but, something happened.

Salvador Villalobos: 9:37

But I said I know that there's something there, you know, and, yeah, the next occasion we went, we harvest with these friends and well, it was this new rhythm that like well, for me and I have been here from some others that it's this space that the medicine opens, that in some way feels familiar, like I have been here, I know this place, I belong to this, you know, and it's a completely other reality. So, in that, the mushrooms also make me, all the mushrooms, but the spirit through the mushrooms make me understand that, that I was not caught with the spirituality, like you cannot cut with spirituality. What happened is that you were disappointed with the institution. You know, the religious institution. So that way I start understanding that my relationship with the spirit is straight, no intermediary, you know. So one thing takes to the other.

Salvador Villalobos: 10:50

So, while with mushrooms also, well, I smoke some cannabis weed, you know. But also, well, since then or before that, I know that I'm a searcher, you know, yes, so, or a quester to stay in this way, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then, after I met the grandfather Pejori, and I love it, and then I was invited to a sweatloss, and I love it, you know, I said I want this my whole life.

Andrew Askaripour: 11:28

I wanted it.

Salvador Villalobos: 11:29

So I start attending the sweatloss and well, with the sweatloss, I start hearing about the well, more about the Pejori, and then I start realizing that it's not just like elements, they come together and it's a path. You know, yes, yes, this is what is called the red path. So this I start like asking to friends and that, and one thing takes to the other, you know. So then I have the chance to meet my elder, my mentor, or the person who I learn with. You know this Aurelio. Aurelio is the man who I learn with most of his tradition, and I respect and I love a lot. You know, I'm so grateful for everything that I was able to share with him. So with him I learn, I grow up, and so in some way also I don't know if it's destiny or what, but I was in the position that many people maybe wanted to be.

Salvador Villalobos: 12:55

You know, I remember a good friend, now an elder. He told me once you are that kind of people. He said there's two kind of people. There's those who spend their lives chasing the rabbit and they never get it, and there's people that, without moving, comes to them. You know, and you are one of those, and that time I didn't understand what he was meaning with that, you know. But then I at this point, and well, I look back and I realize that, yeah, I am one of those. The rabbit just came to me so yeah, I was in this position.

Salvador Villalobos: 13:35

I had a company, aurelio, for about seven years you know he's not that I was looking for that, even well a good friend, because we used to do the Svedlos every two weeks. It was religious, you know every two weeks.

Salvador Villalobos: 14:00

We know the Svedlos, so we were there setting up the fire and well, in this whole process because for me also the way to learn is doing you know, yes, of course so I start attending the Svedlos and then feeling like confident to get closer to the fire then I felt, okay, you set up the rocks and as a rock, and that you know, so we were going to these Svedlos. This friend was leading and he was for a couple years, maybe more, and he always was talking about this man. Aurelio, you should have met the chief and said, hey, what else, you know? Maybe, yeah, yeah, when we have the chance to. Well, there was like a gathering, you know it was like. When was that? Like 2002 or 2003,. It was the fourth gathering of spirituality of the people from all the American continent.

Andrew Askaripour: 15:20

You know yes.

Salvador Villalobos: 15:22

So these people, because this friend that I told you he's from Brazil but he lives in Mexico for a while, for years, and he has his godparents and he said, well, my godparents are coming to do a ceremony, so, but in the ceremony we did a good relationship with them, so they invited me to this gathering so I went with. Well, I was like the driver to say I have a truck in that time. So I said you have a good truck, we pay you for the gasoline and you drive. So we were there and, well, aurelio was there. They were invited by Aurelio. So, well, I was the driver, so I met Aurelio. So our first conversation was like a nice car, you know which, casual, yeah, casual, you know whatever. So it was not a chamanic deep yeah teach me Aurelio, he gave me the true of the mystery.

Salvador Villalobos: 16:36

I don't know. You know, it was so Casual, you know, and I think that in some way he liked that because I think that, or most of the people that is around him, they want to talk about another medicine, the spirit, something that is because, well, he's a wise man and he knows a lot, you know. But for me it was like, well, obviously, respectful man, I was not an intention to talk about something like that you know so we had a good relationship.

Salvador Villalobos: 17:15

we're still having a good relationship, you know. So I think well, life put us together so well. I was working with him for a few years building up the place where he is doing the vision quiz, the ceremonies, the Sundance, so in some way I also was setting up the foundations for that place, you know.

Salvador Villalobos: 17:45

So we were on charge of that place, or managing the place that is in Mexico, and so I learned a lot of everything. I learned a lot of construction, learned a lot of how to manage more or less the events organizing on that, receiving the people. I learned about how to hold the ceremonies, what is needed for the ceremonies. You know so, because we were doing, I was accompanying him for a while during ceremonies, I was driving for him, I was carrying his stuff, I was next to him, you know. So I have that luck to. Yes, so more or less I mean it can be. It's a long story but in general so we'll keep growing and I start like having the well, his trust and my own confidence to start working with the medicine.

Andrew Askaripour: 19:00

Yes, yes, and I love a lot of what you're speaking to and me personally, just being a close friend of yours and knowing some of the more details of your path, it's really affirming to me to see that you were dedicating yourself for so many years on end and learning not only how to hold the fire or how to hold the space and ceremony, but also the organizing and the construction of the space and how to deal with people, I'm sure, and all those dynamics. I think you only get a chance to learn at that depth when you really commit and dedicate yourself to the path. So I feel like for you. I'm curious to hear at that age you know, because this is maybe 20 years ago- 15 years ago.

Andrew Askaripour: 19:56

There was obviously something, as you said, you fell in love with it all, but there was something in the ceremonies and something about the work that you resonated with so much that you were willing to direct your energy and that attention.

Salvador Villalobos: 20:09

Well, yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean. Well, I had my studies, I have two degrees, you know, I was working at that time, but then, in place where I was living, there in Mexico, the area of Puerto Vallarta, it's the coast, pacific coast I mean, I had a good life. I still have a blessed life, you know. But in a moment I feel that I want to move forward, like what else life got for me, you know, in that idea at that age, you know, yeah, I was 20, in my early 20s, and I was attending sweatloss and starting with ceremonies, I was surfing, I was diving, I was studying, working. So I finished my studies and then I feel like I want to move forward. My plan was to have family, also in the States, in the area of Texas, houston, the area. So I have this cousin and I asked him if I can go to work with him and he said yeah, but then he changed, well, the situation. So he told me, you know, wait for a year. But at that point I have been selling everything, or well, I have been. Yeah, I was ready to travel, you know. So I was like now what?

Salvador Villalobos: 21:43

So, in that moment is, when this happened with Aurelio, he moved from the land that he was to this other land. And well, to answer specific this question that you asked me is, we were driving because we went to see this land and then he asked me so what do you do? I said, well, at this point I'm free, I can do whatever I want. So he told me well, I need someone to be on charge of this, you know. But while talking with him, I said, well, my answer was yeah, I can do it, because your dream is my dream, you know. And what is that dream? Well, I love the medicine. So he's a man that was with the medicine.

Salvador Villalobos: 22:34

I learned a lot from him. It was to live in nature. Well, for me, it was my dream. Yes, so I said I want to be there, you know. So I said well, because before that, when I was working in my born city, I find myself going from the office back to my house in the middle of traffic and I said I don't want this in my life, I don't want it. So then I moved to the coast. I want to go more, more deep into nature, you know. So that was like my chance to go into the mountain. And well, everything this was developing by itself. Yes, because also it's not that I'm anti-social, you know, I love to be surrounded by people, or but also it is part of being in contact and touch with people that we can speak about the same, to speak the same language you know.

Salvador Villalobos: 23:41

So I can talk with these people freely about peyote, about ayahuasca, about medicine plants, about divisions, about all this without feeling.

Andrew Askaripour: 23:53

Uncharged. Uncharged yes.

Salvador Villalobos: 23:56

So for me it was like well, on my element, you know. So it's just as I told you, just doing the thing, everything was happening. It was in church, the place, and not because, like planets, you know, it's just because I was there and someone has to do it.

Andrew Askaripour: 24:17

Yeah, right time, right place, but also Right person.

Salvador Villalobos: 24:21

Yeah, in some ways, in some ways, yeah, yeah, I mean also, I learned a lot. I did some mistakes, obviously as well you know, but with those mistakes I was able to learn you know.

Salvador Villalobos: 24:35

So at this point I can look back and really I'm grateful of all these chances I had. And at this point I mean, I don't feel that my ideal has been changed a lot. It has been tuned, it has been improved and, maybe more, it has been clarified, you know. But I is what I said the other day. I was here looking around and say, well, it has not been changed too much, maybe just the location, you know, still being in Mexico, now In Ecuador, and doing the same, building up a temple, a place where we can pray in the way that we want, where we can drink the medicine, where we can take the people up to the mountain the same, yes, so in some ways, the same situation and in some ways, the same place over the desert. You know, yeah, it's just the location, you know, of course.

Salvador Villalobos: 25:34

So, okay, and in this dream, what is that dream? That really there is a chance that humanity can return to the original way that is to be in connection with all this, you know, listen, good relationship, you know, and balance, and that in some way we can move forward to access to a higher state of consciousness, you know, in harmony with nature, in harmony with ourselves in harmony with all beings, you know. So maybe it's an utopia, you know, but something that Aurelio says if we don't do it, who's going to do it for us, you know? And if we don't do it now, when we're going to do it? So it's like the chance that at least I'm taking in my life too. At least I want to leave a good footprint over the desert as possible.

Salvador Villalobos: 26:42

I cannot say well, I got it solved, I am doing it perfectly now, but at least in that direction and learning in that direction, you know so, and also for the next generations, for my daughters, you know so. Hopefully it answers your question, yeah for sure.

Andrew Askaripour: 26:59

Certainly, I think for myself, immersing all of myself into this work for these past seven years that we've known each other, and for these continual visits to Ecuador and to spending time with you and the family and learning directly from the ceremonies and the medicines. I feel like what I have received in my life has come not only from the medicines and the ceremony, but just from what it is to live in community and what it is to live in right relationship with the earth, as you're saying, and for me that's been such big medicine and I share that same vision and I feel that what you're continuing to do, that you begun in your early 20s, is most certainly making a difference, at least in the communities, in the communities in which we engage in?

Salvador Villalobos: 27:55

Yeah, hopefully, well, at least also in my own life.

Andrew Askaripour: 27:57

Yeah, yeah, yeah, certainly.

Salvador Villalobos: 27:59

Yeah, now that you mentioned that, because it's that you know, it's the experience to live in community, in community with the nature, and what the medicine do is just to remind us that you know. Yes, so it's not that. So I said, amazing is not a guarantee If you don't really experience, if you don't really do your self work, you know, because what we all have issues to work with, you know. Also, we can reflect in each other and say, well, I'm not alone and yes, it is possible, yes, and we can do it together. And that feels like, well, that encourage to continue.

Salvador Villalobos: 28:47

You know, really is not an easy path, Because it's always like the medicine of the salmon. You know the salmon medicine. You go against the current, sometimes like and it's hard really, yes, Alone, Well, we are together and it's. It feels, I cannot say easier, but Definitely more enjoyable, yeah, enjoyable.

Andrew Askaripour: 29:14

Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.

Andrew Askaripour: 29:18

Well, speaking of the medicines and what they are capable of doing and supporting. In these early years and even up until now, what do you feel really shifted inside of you as you started to deepen your relationship with the various medicines and also their ceremonies? Because we know that it's not only taking the ayahuasca, the peyote, it's also the structure of how the space is held, the aspect of community, the way you forge a relationship with the water, with the fire, with the wind, with the earth. I know that you've fallen in love with these ways, but how could you say that it has really impacted your daily life and just your way of being and your general perspective?

Salvador Villalobos: 30:12

Well, I can tell that it completely. I don't know if it changed my life or at this point I can say that it really just how to say, confirm the path of my life.

Andrew Askaripour: 30:34

Yes.

Salvador Villalobos: 30:35

Because I told you I felt this or I had this tendency of being nature and that. But I mean I grew up in a city, so I knew that I can. At this point, maybe, if I had not taken those medicines, maybe in this moment I would be working in an office yeah, possibly Mexico and Guadalajara, you know, there's an office for you or something but I'm here. So I think it impacted my life to take the decision that I really want to follow what was my feeling deep inside of me. So give me this inspiration, this courage to follow my dreams, you know, or more than my dreams, my intuition, my nature, yeah, calling. So I mean, relationship is amazing, what amazing. Give me what it was already on me.

Salvador Villalobos: 31:51

So it doesn't give me the chance to accept, to realize what is inside of me and to take that direction, you know, I mean just to say that I a little bit of what I have been receiving of the medicine, you know, but also I mean it's like growing in this part of medicine, living in this part of the medicine. It changes and also, well, I get major. My understanding change is different. But what is that? The understanding, that amazing is just giving me the chance to realize what is on me, to amplify what is on me so I can see it clearly. So it's not that amazing is giving me something from outside, you know, but it opens up this power that amazing have itself and opens up this power that is within myself.

Salvador Villalobos: 33:09

So, with this communion, this symbiotic relationship, is how the memory awakes. I think it's the memory that is in us already, and what we said is that the medicine is nourished by the soil, by the nutrients of the earth. So it's this memory that they keep. So when we do this alliance, this relationship, symbiotic relationship, is like both. We explore this potential that is in these two beings that is amazing in ourselves.

Salvador Villalobos: 34:03

So in that way we can access to this realm or to this awareness, this state of consciousness. That's why it's like it's familiar. I have been there already. Because we are part of it. But it's all these distractions that is in the society that keep us comfortable in nothing.

Andrew Askaripour: 34:35

Yes, I think my first few ceremonies when I first came down here to Ecuador back in 2016, I had the exact same experience of this is familiar, it doesn't?

Salvador Villalobos: 34:46

feel foreign.

Andrew Askaripour: 34:49

A lot of these practices. Although the medicines and the language may be regional, a lot of the behaviors and ceremony are global. They're universal prayer song chanting, entering trance community, working with the fire, praying to the water. It's very much pan-human.

Salvador Villalobos: 35:15

Yes, it's very primal. I think it's in our DNA code, our ancestors and the ancestors, I don't know, from the original people being around. The fire, for me, is so primal. It feels like, wow, it's the same way as well. New styles maybe, but it's the same fire that has been burning since the beginning, like the water. So it's just this chance that the medicine gives us, or that we give ourselves through the medicine, to access to this ancient memory. That reminds me the name of Piaz Podcast our future is ancient or our present as well.

Salvador Villalobos: 36:13

So it's this concept of time that is like a sphere that is, above all, that is growing, that is not a line, past, present, future, it's all together but expanding in the level of consciousness, of awareness of how we are doing the same that our ancestors used to do, sitting in the sweat lodge, as you say, with chanting and recognizing that these elements keep this life, and just to honor what give us, keep us, create life and to remember. That is so simple but so hard to in the society, to keep it in the fresh memory. So it's where it's our attention, you know. So I'm not saying well, to live like a caveman, but at least to remember our origins and to give the place to and just in our way. How do we see or consider the sacredness of life? You know, so we can say, well, I'm not going to consider that the water is sacred if it is the one that keeps us alive, right?

Andrew Askaripour: 38:02

Yes, yes.

Salvador Villalobos: 38:04

So, and also it's what I always say to the people that come, because not trying to change the belief of no one, not trying to convert no one to nothing or to push someone, as usual, or you have to go up to the mountain, to the vision, because you have to pray in this certain way. No, no, no. What we are doing is just sharing what we are. You know, we learn what we have been understanding and always open also to keep learning and to receive from the people that come so that we like to exchange experience when this experience can enrich each other, nourish each other.

Salvador Villalobos: 38:56

You know.

Andrew Askaripour: 38:58

That's one of my favorite aspects about your family and the way all of you work is that you implement multiple practices and traditions into your toolkit per se and you're open.

Andrew Askaripour: 39:12

First and foremost, you, of course, follow instructions of tradition and you are part of a certain lineage of people and traditions that have been being carried for some time, but you're not entirely opposed to receiving inspiration and influence from other cultures. I think that's the beauty of the Camino Rojo in general, the movement specifically in Central and South America, because to me it feels like a conglomerate of a couple different ways, of the ancient peoples of the Americas specifically, and I think people who go to the jungle to drink ayahuasca with the Shepibo or with such and such. It's great People who go to work specifically with the Lakota. It's great, it's beautiful. But one thing I really appreciate about this family and about the Camino Rojo and the Circuit Fire is that it feels like this amalgamation of Lakota traditions, the Native American church, ancient Mexico, the Andean traditions and the Amazonian traditions. It feels like this family of work and I love that.

Salvador Villalobos: 40:29

Yeah, well, I think it's the idea. I say welcome everything that is an addition or that plus that helps, you know. So I mean I love to meditate. I love, I mean well, I have not been doing yoga recently, but I mean it's how to have a good, healthy life, you know. So I mean doing the best possible for myself and through myself, to those who are around me, my family, my friends, my community, you know, and how, as I said, how I can have a good life and how can I live a good footprint over the years, you know, I mean I said we have only one chance that this is life, so let's take advantage. So I want to learn from everything that fits in my ideals and my way of life, everything that helped me to improve myself, you know, and well, for me, the medicine has been helped me a lot, has been a good tool for me.

Andrew Askaripour: 41:57

Yes.

Salvador Villalobos: 41:59

And so I share that. You know it's what I can share, but I know that some people have been spending years learning how to meditate, or people that have been, you know that have different points of understanding, experiences. So let's bring it together and what we can do together, you know. So that is how we can build up a good reality. You know, I cannot say a better, because some people are fine with what they had. You know, I'm not judging, but I'm saying, well for me and for those around me, how we can do it better and how we can improve. So what do you have that can help us? You know, yes, so let's take all that together and, with all the respect to everyone, to the traditions, well, this is good for me, you know.

Andrew Askaripour: 42:58

Yeah.

Salvador Villalobos: 42:59

So, yes, we are well. Also, there's this situation with the traditions. They say, well, now it's, it can be very orthodox or very strict, or strict on your ways. Well, now, the one thing is to respect those ways, but also we are evolving beings, you know. Yes, of course we need to adapt some things, but there's things that are like that and we want to keep it like that. You know, and we, who I am to change some tradition that has been for years, before I arrived to this earth and for generations.

Andrew Askaripour: 43:40

There's a reason why certain things are the way they are?

Salvador Villalobos: 43:42

Yeah, and they still you know, and they still there, and so I'm not going to change some things, but, as someone told me, well, do it on your own style, you know, mm-hmm, but keep the attention and some details. That is good.

Andrew Askaripour: 43:57

To keep it Completely, yeah, so I think that's a great transition into this discussion about we see how inspired people are today to be doing this work, mm-hmm, the work of what it is to be a medicine movement or medicine man, the work of what it is to lead these types of ceremonies, that you have received the blessing from your elders to lead.

Andrew Askaripour: 44:26

Mm-hmm.

Andrew Askaripour: 44:27

And I think just listening to your path and observing the way things are done typically in most cultures is that people really dedicate themselves for years studying with a teacher, studying with at least people who know more than them and have more experience than them. Yeah, and they go through the proper stages within those cultures to receive the permission and things to conduct certain specific ceremonies.

Salvador Villalobos: 44:58

Mm-hmm.

Andrew Askaripour: 45:01

And I, someone who has been a part of this path, who has been learning slowly and patiently and observing at this point in 2022, I know we all see a resurgence of people discovering what has always been. People were saying oh, is it mushrooms ayahuasca the San.

Andrew Askaripour: 45:23

Pedro the peyote. This is what's going to heal everyone. With that comes a lot of passion to share, yeah, but we see, unfortunately, more often than not, people stepping into these positions that require a lot of responsibility and simply not having the experience or the guidance of an elder. It's almost like someone wanting to perform surgery on someone but not having done the proper studies to do so. Yeah, so for you, at your age, at your position in life, as someone who has went through some proper protocols to receive the experience, the guidance, the blessings to perform certain ceremonies and traditions, what are your thoughts on what's happening today and what are your maybe advice to some younger people who may be very passionate to also walk this path?

Salvador Villalobos: 46:21

Well, it's interesting because, well, as you said, at my age and even I'm young, but not like I was before, but still, but also talking with my elder, you know, like I was being like a boom of the medicine. It's trendy now. You know, everywhere people is looking for the ayahuasca, for the mushrooms and the people that has been more open in the society has been more open to all these ways of the medicine plants, the power plants, you know, and in one hand I say, well, better than is the people is focusing in the medicine than other things. You know, yes, there's like now everyone wants to be a sham and all this kind of thing that comes with all this wave. You know.

Salvador Villalobos: 47:38

Well, for me, like an advice to if I can give an advice, I will set a patience. You know, like you like well, even myself, it's years to learn, to understand why, to do it in certain ways, as you said, it's not that I'm going to run an operation to someone when I don't have the skills you know, On the other hand, also, as I said, for me, the way to learn is to do it.

Andrew Askaripour: 48:20

Yes, yes.

Salvador Villalobos: 48:22

But it's okay, let's say they have the willingness to share the medicine. So attend ceremonies, you know, go to different places, learn with different elders or with one specific if you want to work with a specific medicine, but take the time, you know, I mean there's no rush, and at least in this part is what I have been understanding. There's no rush, you know, step by step, because anyway, it's a part you know, so you need to walk it. Yes, so it's step by step, with patience, with passion, because I mean it's not easy anyway, you know, and it's not about to be like, as you said, like the main protagonist of something you know. Yes, the only thing that we want is that the amazing get to the people in the best way possible, be a good experience and don't be traumatizing to someone you know, because it can be you know, yeah, and you bring up a good point.

Andrew Askaripour: 49:44

You know, I think in today's day and age, many people are getting into this work first because it makes them feel important, like they have something to offer, and maybe they're thinking about themselves prior to thinking about the actual help that these traditions can bring.

Salvador Villalobos: 50:02

Yeah.

Andrew Askaripour: 50:04

So I think in that for me at least, with having you in my life and having your family in my life and having even some of your teachers in my life who I've gone to do vision quests with, and others, having someone above me in experience grants me the opportunity to have someone to say hey, slow down or hey do the fire this way.

Andrew Askaripour: 50:26

The way you're doing it is not efficient, or do this, and I think those who are walking this path, or attempting to walk this path, without someone like that can potentially lose their way and potentially, people can be harmed in the way I mean we see it happen often, yeah, and let's say also for themselves, you know, because I mean, in some way I have been on well or learned or realized in myself that the mind is so fragile, you know.

Salvador Villalobos: 51:08

So the amazing sometimes is you don't give the right direction, if you're not really settling the clear intention, you can lost the track, you can lost the way, you can. So in that point the main thing is not going to be medicine, you know, because we call it medicine, because it has an intention, it has a direction. But when I say like, maybe if you go for a hike in the mountain, you know and you don't know the, the path, you know the where to go, you know and you just tend to start walking, you're going to get lost, you know. But if there's someone that has the experience, that knows exactly where to go, how to bring you back, you have the trust that you're going to come back and that you're going to have a good experience, you know.

Salvador Villalobos: 52:21

So, for those who are willing to share the medicine, because at the end I think it's a natural development, you know, because you know that I was when I was in my 20s I was not thinking even that I'm going to be sharing or leading the medicine or leading ceremonies. You know, I just attend ceremonies because I love it and it helped me, I felt how it was working on me, you know. So I said, well, I want more. And well, it's the whole thing that surrounds the ceremony the singing, the drumming, the fire, the medicine itself, the people that, as I said, I was feeling part of a community that we talk about the same and they understand, and all these, you know. So all this is giving you this confidence to move freely, you know. And well, the time, the experience start giving you this confidence that, okay, feel ready to put the water into the rocks for the sweatless, you know.

Salvador Villalobos: 53:42

So the other day I was reading this, something that a friend sent me, because, also, it's now these workshops that in a weekend you can lead a sweatless. Well, I mean, if it's possible, as you knew it before, you know, but it's fine, but it is good that you can take the time really to understand what is the meaning of the sweatless. What for you know and I've been hearing people that they get burned in the sweat. You know, because they put a lot of water, I don't know. They've covered it with plastic and it's really. It's a risk for the other side, for the person who is leading, you know.

Andrew Askaripour: 54:39

Yes, and for the way the traditions are looked at.

Salvador Villalobos: 54:43

So what we want is that all this be well-seen by others, you know, because we want to. I mean, I said I'm respecting, but also I want the others can respect what we are designed to do, you know. But if I'm not taking care of these ways properly, I mean nobody's going to come to my ceremonies or to my sweatloss. You know, people get burned either day after the ceremony they are worse than before, you know. So I think the time, the experience, the patience, you know. So that's why, okay, it's this part of the ritual, of the vision, because to go up to the mountain, what you learn there patience you know, humbleness you know, and that you understand that well, there's this song that says, like walk before you want to run, you know. So go slowly, slowly, you know, give good steps and understand. Or, before you give the next step, a look where, if the ground is stable, you know, because you can fall down and with you you can take others with you. You know, that's right.

Salvador Villalobos: 56:22

So I mean it is fine that the people want to drink Macing wine. Now you know it's for everyone. As I said, not everyone is ready for it neither you know.

Salvador Villalobos: 56:32

So those who want it, well, get ready for it. You know, and you know people that were running ceremony and the Macing was so strong that they had to. They called and finished the ceremony. So someone has to close the ceremony because the person was not the capability to do it, you know. So I mean in this process for me, I remember the ones say, well, I'm going to experience the Macing on myself, I'm going to be my own laboratory, you know. So I say, well, how much I can drink, you know, and but slowly. Well, my early years, when I was in the Macing, I used to drink a lot, a lot. But I realized that I have a. I said, like I can hold a a capability to hold it.

Salvador Villalobos: 57:34

And a mount, you know, and powerful Macing. So, okay, I know that this can be my limit, you know. So I'm not going to take the people beyond my own limits, exactly. So I say, okay, till here I'm able to hold it. You know, if there's people that can go beyond the cave, you know, go with someone that can take you there, you know. But I can take you to this limit. But obviously always we want to improve ourselves and to expand those limits, you know, and it's not about who drinks more, you know.

Salvador Villalobos: 58:09

Yeah yeah, the idea is even I was recently thinking well, maybe I can access to these states of consciousness without the need of drink medicine, you know. So I don't want that the Macing be needed, but I love it, you know.

Andrew Askaripour: 58:30

Yes, I like it, of course.

Salvador Villalobos: 58:32

I know that it's good for me.

Andrew Askaripour: 58:34

Yeah.

Salvador Villalobos: 58:36

And also I can use with meditation, with just sitting here, you know, yeah, surrounded by nature, I feel a connection, you know, but just amazing, I wake up this other realm where it's this memory, you know, or like the realm of mystery, where we can take a look that, okay, there's things that we can do, things that we can even say is like magic, you know, but it's there, you know. Their success to all this, you know. So there is step by step, you know, step by step. So, if you ask me that and advice, be patient and learn it. Well, you know, and don't try to take the shortcuts. Yeah, yeah.

Andrew Askaripour: 59:30

Yeah, that's great advice I think my mother always taught me growing up. Even with something as simple as making the bed, she said if you're going to do something, do it the right way. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's something I'm learning on this path as well, especially when it's sensitive you know, Remembering what your mother says.

Salvador Villalobos: 59:48

you know.

Salvador Villalobos: 59:48

Yeah, do it it well, you know, yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's just that, to put in practice even those teachings that our parents knew, because their parents told them how to do it. Yes, but well, new times, new ways, but there's foundations already. So we are not discovering I don't know if you said in English, but in Spanish, discovering the black thread. You know it's there. People have been walking it, they understand it, they put it there. It's there, you know. Yes, we are not inventing nothing. We are not discovering nothing. We are discovering ourselves. You know, we are reinventing ourselves, but the foundations are there already. That's right. That's right.

Andrew Askaripour: 1:00:37

And you know, regarding the medicine and not being dependent on the medicine to reach a state of peace. You know the other side of that, as you said, is, but we love it. And I think what we love is the uniqueness and the personality of these medicines, because they each have a personality. It's like meeting a friend and saying, oh, I love that friend's style, I love that the way that friend speaks, I like the way they support me.

Andrew Askaripour: 1:01:07

And you know, on this path, specifically how we've been walking and how you have walked and the work that your family does, you're fortunate enough to have a strong relationship with various medicines, not only the ayahuasca, not only the peyote, and you have a special dynamic with each one.

Andrew Askaripour: 1:01:28

And I want to ask you specifically about your relationship with ayahuasca, because, correct me if I'm wrong, but over these years of knowing you, it seems like, at least at many moments in your life, it's been the predominant medicine that you have been offering to others, that you've went to the jungle and received blessings from the shwar for and have really deepened a connection with how to prepare this medicine, how to meet with this medicine, and I'm curious to hear more about how you developed this very intimate relationship with ayahuasca and the process of going to the jungle and receiving some of these blessings and just deepening your trust for yourself, for this medicine, because obviously we all know it's a medicine that many people associate fear with. It can be very strong, it can be very intense and your relationship to me seems like a healthy and trusting and loving relationship.

Salvador Villalobos: 1:02:32

So we'd love to hear a little bit more about that, yeah well, as I told you, in my early days, when I started with the medicine, I started with mushrooms and peyote.

Salvador Villalobos: 1:02:46

Well, each one of the medicines has a special place on my heart, on my being. But I was more related with peyote, living in Mexico, ayahuasca. At that time it was not too common to have it there. So the first time I drank it it was in Peru more than 20 years ago. And well, I like it. You know, every time I had a chance I attend ceremonies. I started traveling here to Ecuador when I met this short family. We had a beautiful, good relationship with them and working with them, learning also how to cook the medicine.

Salvador Villalobos: 1:03:40

I was more into the peyote anyway, you know. I mean all the medicines, I told you, but then it was like, I mean how to say the destiny, the decisions, the mystery, you know. But I felt that ayahuasca in some way chose me because I was needing to learn that way to be more flexible, more loose in my ways, you know, and also knowing that ayahuasca has this feminine aspect, you know. So I started working with ayahuasca more and it was when I started leading ayahuasca ceremonies. I was very strict, you know, like trying to keep it like if it were peyote way. But then ayahuasca just slapped my face like no, no, no, this is not the way it is. And well, I'm stubborn, but I learn, you know, slowly, but I learn. So I started like relaxing my ways, you know, and relaxing myself as well. Well, I consider I am sometimes a relaxed person, a very patient, but ayahuasca turned me into, well, into the snake. You know how to be flexible, how to move more freely, you know. So, yeah, because I understand that more hard I was with myself, harder the Mason is going to be with me, you know. But they are.

Salvador Villalobos: 1:05:48

Well, as you said, they have a personality because, as I said in the ceremonies, it's not just a brew what we drank, it's the relationship that we've yield with this spirit. So, in this way, ayahuasca got a motherly spirit, you know, it's a grandmother, the spirit of the feminine spirit. So I started being kinder with myself, you know, and with myself. Well, I started living more kind in my ways, how I like, share the Mason, how I present the Mason, you know. So, in this relationship that I was building with ayahuasca, I was also learning how to, how to say, like to be more loose, more on my way. So actually I used to drink good amounts, you know Now I Well. Then I remember that I started saying more I drink less. I need you know. But anyway I like sometimes to go to the limits and beyond. You know it has been taking me to different spaces, levels, and I said never stop amasing me.

Salvador Villalobos: 1:07:36

So for me, ayahuasca is the master of humbleness, patience and well, it's this feminine energy that is so caring, but also it can be tough sometimes.

Andrew Askaripour: 1:07:55

Yeah, it could discipline you.

Salvador Villalobos: 1:07:57

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it disciplines you for sure, you know.

Salvador Villalobos: 1:08:01

So I mean it has been a beautiful relationship because it has been, as I told you, very natural, you know. And it's not that I know completely, obviously, no, it's barely you know how to put limits to the mystery, you know. So I'm still obviously learning and I think that I'm not going to finish learning in this life about the ways of the medicine, particularly the ayahuasca, you know so well, there was this moment that I surrendered completely and I said, ok, I really want to have. Because there was times I was struggling a lot, you know, with the medicine, with ayahuasca particularly, until that I started being kinder with myself, understanding that her ways are just surrender and accepting you, and how to put that on practice on my daily life. You know, I mean it's not that I solve all my issues, keep learning and I'm glad I'm still having a lot to heal, to learn, you know. But for me the ayahuasca has been like a spiritual mother, you know that is always there when I need it, even I don't need to drink it.

Salvador Villalobos: 1:10:03

You know, it's all these teachings that keeps reminding me, you know, in situations. So there's situations in daily life that I say well, it's just like a ceremony when I drink ayahuasca. What is teaching? Ok, calm down, relax, surrender to the situation and be patient. You know, be patient. So, as I said, I felt that in some way, medicine, the ayahuasca, shoots me to learn not to be the shaman of the ayahuasca. Not like that, you know. It was like I was needing of her teachings, you know, and in that I mean the same Drinking the medicine, attending ceremonies, learning with elders, in some way feeling confident to hold the medicine, to drink the medicine, and in some way.

Salvador Villalobos: 1:11:20

Well, it was with this elder, ilario Chiriá, from the Shard, on one occasion. He told me well, I haven't seen you. How do you conduct yourself when you drink ayahuasca? And you do it good. You hold it good, having huge prayers and it's really clear. You know your song. So now it's your turn to share the medicine. I said, well, no, no, I'm fine companion, you've been just a participant. No, no, no. But what do you think that you're going to learn it and you're going to keep it? For? You know, you have to share this. You know, the elders are getting older, so it's new generations that have to be ready to continue the job, you know. So, in some ways, I mean, I receive that, the trust of someone and elder, and also through that blessing to give the medicine.

Salvador Villalobos: 1:12:33

If I wouldn't feel confident to do it, I would not do it, of course, but at this point well, it was a process, you know.

Salvador Villalobos: 1:12:45

I remember sometimes in some ceremonies I say, well, I'm so shy, and the people say, well, you're not shy, but the medicine gave me this confidence in myself. I said, well, anyway, if I'm going to do it, I'm going to do it as best as I can and I want also to heal of that. I want to explore myself, to see how I am in different environments and exposing myself to situations, you know, just to know more about myself. You know, not to show nothing, not just to explore myself, to know more about myself and really to, because what is the idea? To really be ourself in our full potential, you know so, and being in our full potential, to experience in our full potential this life. Because, well, I want to really feel the satisfaction to have a good life, that I have been living to the maximum, and I said, ok, breathe the air and feel this life how it's nourishing me, how it, just, with the breathing of the air, can keep this life and have this gratitude of being alive, you know.

Andrew Askaripour: 1:14:16

Yes.

Salvador Villalobos: 1:14:18

And I mean the ayahuasca. There's moment that, well, I'm still breathing, I know I'm still alive. So it's to say thanks, you know, thanks. I remember. This good friend also said well, the amazing. But the ayahuasca give us a chance to experience what is to die, you know, in order to really appreciate it and to live it to the maximum. So it's that you know. That's why some people fear, scare of ayahuasca. Because, you know, I'm sorry when I say, well, have some, of you have a research. What is the meaning, the demological meaning of the word ayahuasca, at least to know what you are drinking, you know, because the ancients on Caleta ayahuasca, just because.

Andrew Askaripour: 1:15:14

True.

Salvador Villalobos: 1:15:15

For not just because. So the meaning is that the rope of death, you know so the idea, is ayahuasca, take us to this experience of dying. You know it's not that literally you're going to die, but part of you, and I mean, I have been in my own funeral in a ceremony like, okay, game over, I'm done, thank you for the beautiful life. But because give you the experience like that, you feel that is happening and you come back to life. Well, I didn't die, thanks, you know, thanks, I'm still having the chance, you know so. So give us this, yeah, this experience to realize, or to don't give it for sure, yeah, yeah, so, and well, I would like to don't forget it, but the day by day, sometimes we are distracted Of course, yeah.

Salvador Villalobos: 1:16:31

Another cup, just to don't forget. You know, to remember it if I forget it, yeah, but to don't forget, that's right. So Well, my experience with ayahuasca will have been at least I know in myself that it has been helped me to grow a lot, to learn a lot. You know, in my level I'm not saying that I'm more than others. No, my own experience, yes, if I, as I say, if I have not drank ayahuasca, maybe my life will be completely different. You know how to know if this is a life that I'm having now, but I can say that the same helped me to accept the path that I'm choosing and to take the decision that I'm taking and to be responsible with the decision that I'm taking. And it's not that I'm, how you say, like repent, or which is the other word, regret. And also I learned that with the medicine I'm not going to regret of nothing, you know. But if I take not the best decision, I'm going to learn it.

Andrew Askaripour: 1:18:00

Yeah.

Salvador Villalobos: 1:18:01

But not regret of my decisions. You know, at least to know, that I took the decision with awareness and with consciousness, you know.

Andrew Askaripour: 1:18:14

Yes.

Salvador Villalobos: 1:18:17

So well, it's one of my master's master plans, one that I really consider. That has been teaching me a lot, and I really honor and respect this relationship that I have been dealing with with her, you know, with this grandmother.

Andrew Askaripour: 1:18:40

Beautiful yeah, yeah, yeah.

Salvador Villalobos: 1:18:41

Beautiful.

Andrew Askaripour: 1:18:44

Yes, I look forward to tomorrow's ceremony. Yeah, me too, we're here at the first day of a new 10-day retreat that's being offered here at Ayulema, so looking forward to tomorrow night.

Andrew Askaripour: 1:18:59

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I was always like a new beginning, yeah completely and when you speak about Ayahuasca and your relationship with her, one thing that I've observed and one thing that I want to discuss here with you now is this practice, this way of prayer that is, through song, just through using your voice.

Andrew Askaripour: 1:19:24

Many people associate Ayahuasca with song and with prayer in that form as well, with the chants, with the ikaros, with the different prayers that people carry during that time. Yeah, and you're someone who carries many different kinds of songs Sundan songs, peyote songs, ayahuasca chants, even the Buddhist mantras but I'm curious for you, not only how Ayahuasca has impacted that for you, but just in general, how your journey has been learning to sing in your own way, especially because I think many people on this path myself included, for many, many years said, oh, I can't sing, I can't learn some of those songs, I can't pray in that way. I think you're someone who has embodied the fact that you're not just singing, you're praying, you're using this sound as a tool. It's not just to have a good voice or something. So how has your journey been with that becoming what I would say the great singer that you?

Salvador Villalobos: 1:20:28

are. Thank you, brother. Thank you, you make me blush, but I really don't consider myself a good singer, but I accept that there's moments when I'm really surrendered to the amazing, when I really connected is true, me. That happened, you know, because sometimes I know that, well, it's a ceremony and I'm not inspired and I have to sing because it's good to sing in a ceremony and it's sometimes even forced and I know that I'm not transmitting.

Salvador Villalobos: 1:21:02

So that is the singing is to transmit, you know the trans, to transmit the vibration of the medicine, to be this instrument of the medicine, to help the amazing flows, moves, bands, shows, brings visions. You know heels, yes, but for that we have to be the instrument. You know, like, let's be like a flute. You know the flute is just a flute, but it's how someone interpret the melody. You know the rhythm so well. I have like a basic A, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, A, a, a, a, a, a, a. I Surface some time, just improvised in the moment, with the amazing. But the other is to transmit. You know, like, the prayers is the same, like transmit, you know, and to really we transmit, we have to be in this connection with the divine, with the medicine, with ourselves, and well, I think it's a discipline as well, and well, it's completely different to sing with medicine without the medicine, sometimes Having studied a song and then in the ceremony it's completely different.

Salvador Villalobos: 1:23:13

It's difficult, but when we become this instrument, it happens. This transmission, this expansion of Because what is music is melody, is harmony, vibration, it's vibration, it's rhythm. So when all this gets together and you become this instrument, you are transmitting what the amazing is bringing you and that helps and that heals to the people that surround to myself. In this case, sometimes I'm just singing and even after I finish my mace and this feeling of peace, this feeling of Plenitude, you know that really it was healing. So I know there's people that they put a record of music in the ceremonies. Well, it's fine, but the thing is that, and it's good music, but it's plain because it's not transmitting what is happening in the moment.

Andrew Askaripour: 1:24:34

Exactly, it's static.

Salvador Villalobos: 1:24:35

Yeah, it's okay and you're going to put play and always it's going to be the same. But when we are doing it live singing even when it's the same song, it's going to be different every time. It depends on the mood, depends on the energy that is in the space. You know, of the people what is needed. You have to go to low vibrations to take that vibration to lift, you know. But you have to go deep down in this vibration and then lift, lift, lift, lift, lift to help to rise or to lift this vibration, because it's also the idea that at the end of the ceremony everyone feels that.

Salvador Villalobos: 1:25:27

You know, even when there's moments that can be tough, you know, people struggling, or even myself sometimes like struggling, but okay, with a song can help to harmonize, to balance. So I think that is what is the chance, or the e-carousel, you know. So when, as I told you, I get moments that I'm not feeling like connected, I don't feel inspired to sing and I know that I'm not transmitting, you know. So sometimes I say, well, better, if I'm not going to help, better I just don't do it. But how to enter in that will surrender. You know that the ayahuasca is master for that okay, you're going to do it well, otherwise let it down you know, so yeah, but as I told you, it's not the I mean it's endless, but there's.

Salvador Villalobos: 1:26:33

I'm respect and amaze of the people that unload the chance. You know, like people that goes up to the mountain and I receive a new song and it's beautiful, you know. So I mean I have him receives, then I forget it, but then always he's changing. That also is what is an e-carousel. It's always like it's alive, it's always changing. It's changing, it's, moving, it's, and I think that the beauty is like the prayers you know. Yeah, it's the same.

Salvador Villalobos: 1:27:12

What is happening in the moment, what I'm feeling, what is needed in the moment just to. So that is the amazing to be in the here and the now, to heal, to transmit what is needed in the moment, you know. So it's what a I mean I'm not making less the record music, I love it, I enjoy it. But talking about the in a ceremony, how, even as I told you a song that I have been singing for years and years, and it's the same song, but always it's going to be different because it's different energy, is different mood, you know.

Andrew Askaripour: 1:27:58

Yes, and the space and nature around us is receiving these prayers and these songs.

Salvador Villalobos: 1:28:03

Yeah, yeah, yeah and we're receiving also from the space itself. You know, sometimes you're the singing of a bird and then you're how do you say that Whistling. Whistling that sound, you know.

Andrew Askaripour: 1:28:20

Yes, exactly.

Salvador Villalobos: 1:28:21

And you say well, it's the transmission of nature.

Andrew Askaripour: 1:28:24

Yeah, how many times has someone been singing to the water and then the rain begins to trickle?

Salvador Villalobos: 1:28:30

down lately. Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, it is. On a dry night and, you know, once he starts praying and singing for the water, he starts to fall and and it was not that okay, I sing and I can make a rain. No, but it's synchronicity.

Andrew Askaripour: 1:28:44

Being a harmony.

Salvador Villalobos: 1:28:45

Yeah, harmony, synchronicity, okay, everything is happening at the same time, you know. So I mean this synchronicity with the wholeness, with the nature. So I'm transmitting this feeling of the rain and I'm starting singing and it's start raining, and everything is happening at the same time because we enter in this synchronicity. So it's that, the magic, you know, that is there, you know, it's just to access to it.

Andrew Askaripour: 1:29:14

Yeah, completely Okay. So I'd love to transition into speaking about vision quests. I had just finished my second vision quest, the seven-day vision quest, in this tradition. For those who don't know, it's a four-year commitment and the first year is four nights, four days.

Andrew Askaripour: 1:29:38

The second seven, the third nine and fourth, 13. We have our dear sister, fernanda, up on the mountain right now, who will be completing her 13th night tonight Tonight, correct and she'll be harvesting her tomorrow. And you're someone who has done your vision quest. Throughout your journey, you've supported countless others. You've gotten to witness and really immerse yourself into this tradition that is specific to you, know the lineage in which you're working, within, the way in which it's conducted, the act of going out into nature and fasting from food and water, and being in solitude and sitting with yourself within a specific space. It's something that all cultures have implemented into their ancient traditions.

Andrew Askaripour: 1:30:38

And, for me, a vision quest has changed my life in so many different ways. It has made me so much more appreciative of both the small and big things. Yeah, and you know it's only four or five days out since I've completed my seven days, so I still feel very fresh in some of the insights and teachings. But I would love to hear from you how this practice of going up to the mountain has impacted your life and how it is for you now to be holding the responsibility of being someone who you know, has this, has access to this mountain and who is now holding a fire for questers. Pretty consistently, I would say you've had I don't know how many have come to Hagelima so far but almost 20 or so questers.

Salvador Villalobos: 1:31:35

More than 20.

Andrew Askaripour: 1:31:36

Yeah, how has the quest been for you and your journey going up to the mountain and sitting in solitude for those days and how is it for you now to be able to offer that to?

Salvador Villalobos: 1:31:47

others. Well, yeah, I told you, it's a path you know. So what we are doing here at Hagelima is like offering these retreats in order that people can have access to experience the medicine, but also the medicine is just a part of this path.

Andrew Askaripour: 1:32:18

the red path you know.

Salvador Villalobos: 1:32:21

So the vision quest is another of the practices or ceremonies or rituals. So we invite or encourage those who feel it to do it, to do the vision quest. The same, like the medicine and other things, the first is to experience by myself. You know, I said I'm not going to do something that I have not or to offer something that I have not experienced first. And also, like with the medicine, well, something that Aurelio told me once is no one asks you for help but you don't have to give it. You know, I mean, there are situations that, but, talking about like or with that, I'm not going to give medicine that someone don't want to drink it. So the same happens now with the vision quest.

Salvador Villalobos: 1:33:43

So I told you the life, the path that brought us to this place, ulima, and what we have, these beautiful mountains here. So well, it was a thought and something that I knew, this path, that eventually I'm going to be asked to take someone up to the mountain. You know. So I said, well, until someone asked me I'm going to do it. You know, I mean, I have been supporting many people in other places, like with Aurelio or some other places, a company, but now, in this time here at Ulima, we are leading a vision quest for the people. So the same for me. The process of the vision quest that brought me a lot of teachings, understanding different ways to see my own life, or even life in general, you know. Because, well, as you said, it's just too simple just to go up to the mountain, stay there during four days, four nights, isolated in silence, fasting without water. So it sounds easy and simple, but what happens there? Well, it's just to live it really.

Andrew Askaripour: 1:35:24

It's vision works, you know.

Salvador Villalobos: 1:35:27

Because what happens? Well, something like talking with friends and understanding or sharing our own experiences. It's a process. It's something that we normally don't do. Since we were born, we eat, we drink, we water, and once we start talking, we talk most of our life you know we speak most of our life. So it's this practice, like you said, in many cultures or spiritual paths, the practice of fasting. The other day, talking with someone, I was saying why, to stay there and have fast.

Salvador Villalobos: 1:36:23

you know that is needed and the way how I understand it is okay. Most of the energy that we take from the food that we consume let's say like 70% of that energy that we absorb from the food is for digestion. So when we stop eating we have this. I used to say like this energy that is liberated, no, but also like keep, like reserve.

Andrew Askaripour: 1:37:13

Yes, yes.

Salvador Villalobos: 1:37:14

Obviously so, because we're not digesting. So what to do with this energy? Well, to use it for a higher purpose. I mean, digesting is a good purpose too, but this energy, that is, to really use it to lift consciousness.

Salvador Villalobos: 1:37:41

And also, you're not distracted in this process of well, we eat every day, so four days without eating, you're not distracted. Well, well, I have to cook or what I'm going to eat or what I'm going to eat. So it's, our attention is in different aspects, but it's a process. For me, the process okay, first a little bit of hunger, then the thirst. That is an important one, and the most difficult process for me was my mind. So once you pass this moment, that, okay, you can get used to the hunger and then you don't feel it. And the thirst, okay, you can manage it in some way. But to be alone in silence is not easy. But for me, I don't know.

Salvador Villalobos: 1:38:49

Well, for me and for others that have had the experience that well, I start remembering things of my childhood. I was, you know. So it's like well, I remember a good friend says well, with the medicine and sermon you learn a lot, but in the mountain it's unlimited. You receive a lot of understandings and you also understand the value of what is the water, you know. But I say sometimes to the people well, we have this good luck or blessing to have easy access to water, but when you decide to stop drinking water during four days. Really, you appreciate what is to have water. At least one drop on your mouth of water that can refresh you, you know.

Salvador Villalobos: 1:39:53

So this practice, I mean it's not that we do it to suffer, you know, I think it's more than that. We do it because we don't want to suffer anymore, really to learn how to be in gratitude for the chance that we have to have a roof over our heads, you know, to have access to water, to see everything like a gift of the spirit. You know the life itself, you know so well, it's a vision cause. So that is that you are well in Lakota's. So the begging or crying for a vision, you know, a vision for my life, you know I said, well, in the mountain you get inspiration, you get. I mean, I remember to be there and, okay, I have a lot of ideas that I want to do you know, yeah, yeah.

Salvador Villalobos: 1:40:58

That's well another of the teachings patience, you know, you know the other, and understanding that the time is so relative, you know because, you say well, the sun is not moving.

Andrew Askaripour: 1:41:08

You know, yeah, yeah.

Salvador Villalobos: 1:41:10

When the night is coming, that night, when the sun is rising, again, you know. But I think there's a moment when you make this connection because everything around in some way speaks to you, you know. Well, it's not that everything is there to speak to you, but again, you enter in this communion, you enter in this synchronicity with the time, with the nature, with everything that you can. Even the most what we can consider insignificant being can give you a big lesson, you know. And and a bee, you know, it's not as well if you are one of the lucky ones that the eagle fly over you well it's the eagle, you know, but it's how you expose yourself again to a situation that normally you don't you know.

Salvador Villalobos: 1:42:19

So we say you cannot do this without trust, and it's in both sides, when you are up in the mountain. And now that we in my case we are holding this ritual, like you said, taking or keeping the fire during this time, this connection that we have is because we keep the fire burning during the time that the people is up in the mountain. So we said that we have this connection through the fire with the people that is up in the mountain. So we feed the fire to send this energy of this nutrition to the people that is up in the mountain. We give the water to the fire so the people, to support the people, that they don't have the most thirst. Or we sing in the sunrise and sunset to let know the people and the spirits that we are here supporting them.

Andrew Askaripour: 1:43:21

You know yes.

Andrew Askaripour: 1:43:23

Or accompany them so and if I can pause you right there. For me, that's what the big difference is between, because some people just say, oh, why not just go out into nature with a backpack and sit there by yourself? Why do you need an elder, why do you need friends or teachers to support you? And for me, just knowing that you and others that I love and trust and have also went through this, or at camp below, singing at sunrise, singing at sunset, feeding the fire, praying for me daily, that adds an entirely different dimension to my ability to connect with the mystery that's around me.

Salvador Villalobos: 1:44:15

Yeah, no, and also it's different purpose. You know, you can go into nature to explore, you can go into nature like a survival experience, but this is specific spiritual practice. So everything that we are doing is in that intention that the people can have a good connection. So we are holding a fire, but it's not a campfire, it's a sacred fire that is burning. We do these designs with the calls to call certain spirit or to call certain or specific prayers depends how we are feeling, what is going on, what is needed, you know so, and it's this connection between the people that is holding the space, keeping the fire, supporting the people that is up in the mountain, because I don't know how it happened, but it happens, you know. Okay, we take the people up in the mountain, we're going to be singing, keeping the fire, and we're going to be eating and drinking for you, you know so, every time we eat, we drink something we have in our mind, in our heart, those people who are up in the mountain, you know so.

Salvador Villalobos: 1:45:34

I remember the very first time a good friend asked me to support her in the vision quest, I was like, yeah, I'm going to be supporting, you know, I'm going to stay here in the camp and I'm going to drink and eat for you and I don't know. But suddenly I was so hungry and I even felt it. I said, well, she's hungry, so I'm going to eat because she's hungry. I feel so thirsty, so the questers are thirsty, you know. So let's drink water because they are needing some water. So we are again like this channel, this instrument. So everything that I'm eating, drinking, is in order to support the people that are up in the mountain.

Salvador Villalobos: 1:46:17

So now, as you said, well, now I'm in this other side, like holding this ritual for the people that want to go up to the mountain. So I'm learning as well now to be on charge of this ritual. And well, I'm growing in this. I'm realizing that it's not just to keep the fire, it's really this exercise of trust and really to be there for them. It's OK, they are putting their life, because I have been here with people. I say nobody is scientific proof that the people cannot live more than three days without drinking water. Well, it's what they said, you know, but I have been survived.

Andrew Askaripour: 1:47:03

We have hundreds of people to disprove that.

Salvador Villalobos: 1:47:05

Yeah, yeah, hundreds of people thousands of people have been survived four days without drinking water and how that can be. Well, it's the trust that we have because we said we are putting our life there, you know. So, here, my brother, when you say, well, I think that there's an animal surrounding me and I don't know, you know. So I say, well, trust, you know. And anyway, if I'm saying I'm putting my life here because I trust in the mystery and the spirit, so if I have to serve as food for another being, I'm here for that. If that's my purpose, you know, but please, give me a chance.

Salvador Villalobos: 1:47:53

Because, well, in some ways I'm exposing myself to don't drink, to don't eat, so like in this relationship with the mystery, with the spirit saying, ok is what I am, you know. So I'm offering, in some way, my life. So I'm offering my life because I need some inspiration, I'm looking for a vision you know, For my life.

Salvador Villalobos: 1:48:22

What is that vision? Well, it depends, you know. I need to know what is my purpose of life. I need to know, I need to clarify my mind because I need to take some decisions. I don't know, it depends on each one, you know.

Andrew Askaripour: 1:48:37

Yes.

Salvador Villalobos: 1:48:38

And also we want that vision be good for the people that go up to the mountain, but that be good for the community as well, you know. So, even just if someone comes back and get inspired and say I have a new song, thank you, it's a song for everyone, Completely. But well, just as an example, I think, and I remember since then, I have the vision to be doing what I'm doing now. You know, I know that I have been taking people up to the mountain and now I'm leaving this vision. I'm taking the people up to the mountain and, as I told you, it's not something that I was like wanted to do because I want to, Because I want. I knew that I'm going to do it eventually.

Salvador Villalobos: 1:49:40

But also, well, if it's required, if someone asks me. So people start asking me well, there's the mountain and it's everything I want to do. The vision because here, you know. So now I'm also in this process to receive the instructions, the blessings, the trust of my elders to take the people up to the mountain. So we are taking it now, taking the people up to the mountain. So we have like two years now.

Salvador Villalobos: 1:50:12

Two years and, yeah, I think it's more than 20 people that we have been taking up to the mountain. Also, for me, it's this process that I always prefer to go, step by step, you know. So I'll say this is in this path, this practice is taking you, leading you to another stage of your growth in this path. So you said, well, the first year you go for four days and four nights, and I said you are opening the door of humbleness, like in the medicine and everything, I think the first teaching is to be humble and humble. It doesn't mean that submissive, submissive.

Salvador Villalobos: 1:51:15

Yeah, for me, humbleness is to recognize who I am and what I am standing. You know what I have been doing and no more, no less. This is what I carry. You know, this is who I am, accepting my reality completely and with respect obviously. Then the second year is the seven days and seven nights, but after the fourth day, the fifth day, we take some support to the people, so we take them a tea of medicine and some fruits, so they can continue the next three days. And then the third year, the same After the four days and nights, the fifth day we take them the medicine, again, the fruits, and in the eighth day we take them water so they can pray with the water and receive also the support of the fruits, but in the third year also if the person feels like that. So in the third year we are opening the second year, we are opening the door of willingness.

Andrew Askaripour: 1:52:46

Yes.

Salvador Villalobos: 1:52:46

OK, I want to continue this. Why? Because after you start asking yourself why I'm doing this, what for? Or? I could be in my comfy bed and I'm here in the ground, yeah, and you know, passing this time without drinking, without eating. So it's a process. So the second year you open this door of willingness, do I want to continue? Why do I want to continue? So, in the third year you open this door. That is sincerity.

Andrew Askaripour: 1:53:26

Yes.

Salvador Villalobos: 1:53:27

When you in some way face yourself if you really want what you want, whatever. But also in this path. Ok, because in the third year you have the choice to receive the first instrument in this path, that is, a Chanupa or a sacred pipe. So it's the first instrument that you can receive to pray with that is a sacred pipe. Or say that it's the first altar or the first fire that you receive and from this pipe you can continue your path. Or you can just say, ok, I'm going to keep just this instrument, just this altar of the pipe. So the pipe gives you access to another seven altars or rituals or ceremonies. So the four years, in the 13 days and 13 nights, you're praying or opening the door of the integrity. Yes, so it's OK, because with the pipe you become a person that prays or recognizing the pipe carrier. In this path I mean, every person is allowed to pray in any way, but in this path with the pipe, you say, well, I'm carrying this pipe and I'm on service to others. If someone needs support on some prayer, I can carry this pipe. I can load this pipe and support with my prayers too. So it's not my pipe, I'm carrying this pipe to service for others and for myself as well, obviously. And so in the four years of integrity, so really to walk a spiritual path, you have to be, you say like, you have to do that, your actions and your words being the same line. What is to be honest with yourself and with others as well. So after you finish this four years, if you feel it, if you want it, you can carry the second altar in this path, that is, the sweatless. But obviously it's a process that you have four years to ask yourself if you really want to carry these responsibilities Three years for the pipe, four years for the sweatless, and then, after you can continue and have access to the sound dance, and after four years of sound dancing, if you feel it, you can have access to the altar of the medicine. So it's the same, in this path, what we learn is patience. So there's no hurry. At least take years you can take to learn these ways in order to serve the medicine.

Salvador Villalobos: 1:57:14

As I said, there is in this particular path, in this lineage, because there's different linens as well In this lineage, there is a sacrifice of its Achille-Latland. We do it like that four, seven, nine and thirteen. Another lineage of the same path of the red path, they do four years of four days and four nights, and it's fine as well. For me, the four, seven, nine and thirteen. Does that give you access to different stages of understanding? Yes, I mean, it's not the same to be isolated in silence during four days and four nights and being isolated and in silence during thirteen days and thirteen nights.

Salvador Villalobos: 1:58:17

Yes, very true and well, at the end, that is going to help me to know more about myself. You know, as I said to the people, you don't have to show nothing to no one. You know the commitment is with yourself and with the spirit and you know how you're going to carry that. You know you cannot lie to yourself or you cannot. You know it's and well, there's people that they just want to try it, so it's fine. You know there's people that they do their first year and they are fine with that. So, but at least that know that it's a commitment you know, with myself, with no one else. So I mean this process of of the vision quest is. It is, for me at least, the understanding of have to have good relationship with everything around me, with my surroundings, with the elements, with the water. Simple like that. Because it is you are not the same that you used to be before and after you come.

Andrew Askaripour: 1:59:56

Yeah.

Salvador Villalobos: 1:59:57

Of the mountain. You know that's right. When you come back, I'm pretty sure that you are going to give thanks for the first cup of water that you received. Thank you for this water, you know, and that makes a difference in life. Yes, in everything you know so a good friend said if more people do the vision quest, this will be a different world. Yes, because more people will be more aware of this connection, this relationship with water you know, Because and well, understanding that water is life, you know.

Salvador Villalobos: 2:00:42

So it's just to have a different understanding and different connection with the water and with life. So that's why we said it's a path. You know, it's not like, and well, as I said, it's the same reason for everyone, but it's not everyone wanted or not everyone is ready. You know. I know people that say no, I'm never going to do that. Okay, it's fine, Nobody is pushing no one to do this, you know. So, yeah now, I'm so grateful and so blessed to be able to take people up to the mountain.

Salvador Villalobos: 2:01:33

I'm so grateful that I'm not alone doing this, you know, because, yeah, it's a great responsibility and, well, I'm realizing that, yeah, really, we are putting our life. You know, I wake up at night just to sit and pray for the people that are up there because, I don't know, sometimes it's raining, sometimes it's the thunder, the lightning, there's animals up there, you know. So you don't know what can happen, but we trust that everything is in this well, in divine order, and in this communication, this relationship with the spirit. So, in this ritual, we do this ceremony to let know the mystery and all the beings that are here, well, asking the permission, and that we are going to take these people up to the mountain and please take care of them. You know, just like I know, I feel like when a child grows up and then he has to leave the house of the parents and the parents take care of them.

Salvador Villalobos: 2:03:14

You know praying for their child, or like a beard when he's leaving the nest. Like, okay, your turn, go and fly. You know, it's as if we take off the people like, okay to the universe, take care of my child you know, Because we are exposing our life to whatever can happen up in the mountain, you know, and it seems that maybe nothing happens. What happens a lot, you know Certainly, just this time of being there, I mean In myself, it changes a lot the perception of time, the perception of who I am, in my position, in this reality.

Salvador Villalobos: 2:04:07

So that's why it's this process humbleness, willingness, sincerity, integrity. So I'm growing up in this path and I need to understand these values, and not just to understand it, but to live it. So that's why we say well, you have one year to understand what is humbleness. One year to understand, I mean one year till the next time that you go up to the mountain. But the idea is that you get these values for life, you know, and to keep understanding and putting them in practice as well.

Andrew Askaripour: 2:04:46

Yes, yes, yeah, for me, this practice of the four consecutive years and the increase in duration, then the seven and the nine and the thirteen, you know, for me doing my second quest this year, and for having the opportunity to see you and others on the fifth day and to receive that support, to receive that medicine and those fruits. It also taught me our dependence as human beings on community and family.

Andrew Askaripour: 2:05:29

Not only the water, not only the fruit, but just our dependence on friends and of caretakers. And for me, when I was able to receive that support on the fifth day, it gave me the strength to go even deeper into these things that I'm working on for myself. It gave me the assurance of knowing I have support. I have people who are praying for me and people who are staying true to their commitment to hold me in this way, and I feel, too, as if more people, if they were able to meet these traditions or have the courage to go up the mountain, that this reality we're living in would be very different because, as you said, it really shifts your understanding of your position on this earth and in this universe.

Andrew Askaripour: 2:06:29

Yeah, yeah, I'm so grateful that this is happening now.

Salvador Villalobos: 2:06:35

Yeah, I'm grateful too and yeah, it's this part that you mentioned, you know that because, well, many people and myself also used to hear the sound of the drum, and then the people sing and say, well, I'm not alone, there's people that is there taking care and supporting what I'm doing up here, you know. And so, in that way is that I feel part of this community, and the same when we are drumming, singing, it's like encouraging, like thank you for what you are doing up there.

Andrew Askaripour: 2:07:10

Yes.

Salvador Villalobos: 2:07:11

So we say that really, the questers are our hope, you know, because we know that these people that is in some way, are waking to this understanding of being part of this community, this net of understanding of supporting each other, of being part of the wholeness of people that is standing to take care of water, standing of taking care of nature, standing of taking care of themselves, you know, is what some of my elders says. Well, at least that you understand that you are the responsible of your own life and you cannot blame others of your own situation. You know so he said, just to take the responsibility of your stupidity to others. With that, you are helping a lot.

Andrew Askaripour: 2:08:10

Thank you for doing that.

Salvador Villalobos: 2:08:12

So yeah, it's. I mean, we can talk about it a lot, but the only way to understand it is to being up there, you know. But for me it's so beautiful how now the people that is up there in the mountain it's inspiring others, that is down here, supporting Just when many people that comes to retreat, and knowing that there's people up there, and then we receive them in the sweatloss and then they start talking about their experience, so they get inspired and say next year I want to come and do it, I want to do my vision quest and I say, well, thank you for that, you know. So, more people, more people. So, one by one, one by one, and it is, I think, that we can make the change, make the difference, you know, and at least to make a change and a difference in my own life, you know, and with that, if I can inspire someone else, wow, you know, that is a big service I am giving, just inspiring someone. I don't have to do nothing else but to inspire someone. So thanks, you know, thanks for that.

Salvador Villalobos: 2:09:35

So yeah, it's, and well for me also that to know that people is trusting their life in the mountain and that we can take care of their lives here in the fire and the camp is wow. You know it's invaluable. Yeah, it's invaluable.

Andrew Askaripour: 2:10:08

Yeah, like it's a gift.

Salvador Villalobos: 2:10:10

It's a gift, yeah, this chance to say how I'm not going to do it. You know so, because someone did it for me as well. You know so, if someone is trusting on me to take care of fire, and while they are up in the mountain, for sure I do it, you know so. I mean it's not easy.

Salvador Villalobos: 2:10:30

You have seen that it's just to keep the fire 13, 24 hours and 13 days during the whole day, whole night, and feeding, and all the work, you know, shopping wood to keep it. So the attention, you know so, is how this attention, or this fire is keeping us, the attention to the fire and to the people that is up there, you know. So that creates this energy of community. Well, we are doing this and waking early in the morning to go and sing to my questers, you know, to my people that is up there, you know, to my family that is there, you know, to let them know that I'm still here supporting them.

Salvador Villalobos: 2:11:22

Yes, yes, so it's a beautiful relationship, and I mean when we say it's a commitment with myself. So it's the same. You know, I have the commitment to support those who are up there, but because I want it, you know, yes, because if they are there without drinking and eating, and you know, for me it can be easier you know, but also it's this intimate relationship.

Salvador Villalobos: 2:12:06

You know that is very. It's this energy that is subtle. But I know that each time I wake up to sing, the questers that are up there is waiting for that, and when they hear the sound of the drum they feel happy with that Completely, so that makes me happy as well.

Andrew Askaripour: 2:12:29

Yeah, I can attest to that, and I think for me, everything you're speaking to about community and letting people know that we are here together, that's the grander scheme of the vision of Ha Yulema, and it's just so beautiful to be here in this moment and to see the development of this land, of this sanctuary. You know, I was fortunate enough to bring the first, or to help bring the first, retreats here back in.

Andrew Askaripour: 2:13:08

September of 2020. And you had an amazing process of how this land was even birthed and how it came into existence. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And what a miracle it's been for you and your family and so many others. I would love to spend some time wrapping up here, speaking about the dream of this amazing paradise.

Salvador Villalobos: 2:13:35

Yeah.

Andrew Askaripour: 2:13:37

And just knowing, also taking a moment to give thanks to everyone who helped birth this dream Back in 2020. During the pandemic, you and your family received a lot of contributions to create this space.

Salvador Villalobos: 2:13:53

Yeah.

Andrew Askaripour: 2:13:54

Hundreds of people you know.

Salvador Villalobos: 2:13:55

Yeah, yeah, yeah, it has been, as you say, a gift and so beautiful all this process and look, it's not my place.

Salvador Villalobos: 2:14:07

You know, it's what I said to all the people that come and that is part of this.

Salvador Villalobos: 2:14:15

It's for all of us, you know, for those who want it, you know the place is here.

Salvador Villalobos: 2:14:19

We are just the caretakers of the place and we consider this a land where we are free to pray in the way how we feel it, how we want it, that we are free to drink the medicines, to consecrate these medicine plants, that we are free to go up to the mountain because it's what we want to do, it how we want to do it, you know, and that we feel safe doing all these practices here. So, I mean, there's many people involved in this and, as I said, it's for all of us. You know, we are all part of it. Also, well-taking this space, this moment, to give thanks to all of you, you know, all of you that have been part of this dream to come true. I mean the very first ceremony that we did here, it was this feeling of the energy and, like the spirits, that lives here, it was giving us the welcome and saying well, we were waiting for all of you to create this you know, the fire is here.

Salvador Villalobos: 2:15:55

The mallocale we have is like the house of the fire and it's burning there all this time and it's like spreading this energy and I feel like the ancient Native Americans used to say, like sending this smoke. Sign us to call the others to come, you know, and just to let them know we are here, so welcome whenever you want, you know. So obviously it requires a lot of work to do maintenance and all this, you know. But we are building up this place together and has been a beautiful adventure and I have been enjoying each one of the parts and moments. And, really well, the plan is to have this place to receive those who resonate with it, you know, with these ways of medicine plants, of going up to the mountain and I don't know. We are going to keep adding more activities. I say, well, you have an idea or you have something that can be helpful, bring it and let's see if we can make it true as well here, you know so I said this. I mean we are just here to be on service, you know. Yes, so, because the land is going to continue after us and hopefully next generations can enjoy this place as well, or it's our willingness, you know, so that our children's can grow up in a safe, healthy environment, you know so, eventually.

Salvador Villalobos: 2:18:00

Well, we are now growing some tomatoes, some pineapples, some medicine plants, you know, we have planting Yahuasca, vain, chacruna plants, some San Pedro. We want to grow some tobacco. We want to grow vegetables, you know, yes, but we cannot do it alone, you know. So I'm grateful of all the people that have been come. That is here. Thank you, andrew, thank you to everyone that is putting something else to make it true. And then, well, at the beginning and until the end, we want to enjoy it, you know. So feel free.

Salvador Villalobos: 2:18:53

And to come with good, nice ideas, and feel free to come also to drink medicine, to go up to the mountain, to grow up together, you know to share this life together and I mean I pray and I hope that more places like this I know that there exist many other places, but more and more, you know, I hope that maybe someone can get inspired of this place and say, well, I have a piece of land that I would like to have a suede los, so I'm going to do the vision quest and I want to lead a suede los in my place, in my land, in my country, so more people can have access to a suede los, more people can have access to medicine plants, to vision quest, to things that be good and healthy for others, you know, for humanity. That's right. I'm not in any competition with no one. It's not that you know. We want to be community with everyone, you know we want to be really a family.

Salvador Villalobos: 2:20:05

You know, yes, we are a family, so we want to live like a family.

Andrew Askaripour: 2:20:10

I love how you always express that this is not a retreat center this is one. This is our home.

Salvador Villalobos: 2:20:18

Yeah.

Andrew Askaripour: 2:20:19

For you live here and your family lives here, and secondly, this is a spiritual sanctuary.

Salvador Villalobos: 2:20:24

It's a place for people to come and to feel safe as you said, yeah, yeah, it's a sanctuary, because, well, you see, just here talking to you. Yeah, these two kids, the two kids and the hogs and the bunch of birds and well, this sanctuary for the medicine plants, so it's a place that we want to keep. It. It's long of the planet. You know it's plenty of water here, you know it's the oxygen here is so well the air, yes, it's pure and well, it's so nourishing, and the place itself is medicine, yeah, completely.

Andrew Askaripour: 2:21:25

I always say the same to people Even if you don't drink ayahuasca, even if you don't take San Pedro, just come and receive the medicine of the land.

Salvador Villalobos: 2:21:35

Yeah, yeah, yeah, and the same. We want to have a good relationship with all these plants and all beings here. We want to really to live, to understand how is to live in harmony with nature. It's what we are, you know. So the same. How to be in a good relationship with the tabaco. You know how to pray. Now that we are talking, tabaco can be an instrument to speak kindly, you know, inspired like the coca leaf as well. You know. So I'm glad that many friends have been in different places bringing the teachings that they have in other places. You know how to use the tabaco, the coca leaves, different plants as well, different practices, meditations, yoga, sound healing. So how we can enrich each other. You know how we can nourish each other with our experience, and that's why I feel that it's a good place to share, to grow together, to explore together, you know, and to have a good time together.

Andrew Askaripour: 2:23:03

You know to enjoy together. Yeah, it's a great place to have a great time.

Salvador Villalobos: 2:23:07

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Andrew Askaripour: 2:23:09

You know, these past two years of continually coming here and these past six months of having the blessed fortune to live here has been some of the funnest times of my life. I think we're laughing and enjoying, you know, 95, 99% of the time, yeah, no, no.

Salvador Villalobos: 2:23:25

So we have moments of I mean silence, peaceful moments. Sometimes we go hiking the mountain and just to be in silence there is so peaceful, you know. So I mean, for me it's a gift and I really so grateful to have this opportunity to be here. So that's why I say, well, more people come to enjoy of this, you know, if they feel it, if they want it, you know.

Andrew Askaripour: 2:24:00

Of course.

Salvador Villalobos: 2:24:02

It's the idea that maybe in a moment during the year, you feel that you want to have a break home and have a break here and, as you said, it's not needed that you have to drink no, no, no, just to enjoy and have a lay down and rest.

Salvador Villalobos: 2:24:32

To have a good rest, to have a break, yes, but also to have a good company. So, thanks for all that, you know, of course, yeah, of course. And also to go up to the mountain, to the vision quest brothers, this recent harvesting, I just have seen how the questers come back with this bright in their eyes and with that they are saying everything, like the gratitude, the joy, the connection that they had. You know this friend, like saying well, really, thank you to have this place, you know, thank you for giving yourself this chance. You know, in your life, take it more often.

Andrew Askaripour: 2:25:27

Yes, yes, yeah, I'm incredibly grateful to be here.

Salvador Villalobos: 2:25:32

Yeah, thank you very much.

Andrew Askaripour: 2:25:35

I want to close with something that I feel like can benefit me personally, but can benefit others as well, and I think, out of all the things that someone can say, you, salvador Villalobos, are, you're a father.

Andrew Askaripour: 2:25:57

Yeah, and you're a great father.

Andrew Askaripour: 2:25:59

And I want to ask you, beyond the medicines, beyond this work that you're engaging in, how it is to be a father and once you've learned from that and what you are continuing to learn of what it is to be a father to two beautiful daughters and to care for the next generation, not only your own children, but for the future generations- yeah, well for me.

Salvador Villalobos: 2:26:31

well, if I have a blessed life with becoming a father, just confirm that I'm blessed. You know, and that is the real understanding, what is to give my life, my life for the life, take care of the life of someone else. So the biggest teaching, the biggest love has given my daughters, you know, and also the same I said to the children of my friends, like Matias or other friends, my children, these are our children, you know, because he's the children of humanity.

Salvador Villalobos: 2:27:23

So we want to take care of them. Really, I want that my daughters, and all children, can have beautiful chances, better chances. You know, I mean I'm blessed, my parents give me a good life and I'm so grateful for that. So the same, I want to give them the best that I can give them, you know, and everything that I do is for being in good conditions for them. You know, I want to heal myself, to don't pass them my own issues. You know, I don't want to traumatize my daughters for my own issues, so I want to be healed for them. You know, I mean for myself to them. You know, yes, so they have been teaching me, really, that what is to take care of the life of someone else and even my own life, you know, and now also, I feel that each one of the questers when I take them up to the mountain is my children as well, like take care of yourself there up in the mountain.

Andrew Askaripour: 2:28:53

Yes.

Salvador Villalobos: 2:28:55

And I'm taking care of you from here, you know, sending you the best thoughts, the best prayers and taking care of this fire and feeling this fire, because I know that you're going to receive this nourishing from here, you know, and I want to be in good conditions, in good health, to be able to continue taking care of my own children and the people that come here, you know.

Salvador Villalobos: 2:29:22

I don't want to be a worry for no one, you know. I want to really that, be healthy, to continue being on service of my loved ones, you know. And so for me, my daughters is my how I said, my motivation, my motto, you know. But make me awake every day to say I'm going to do my best for them, you know, and for me to them, you know. So if someone has been inspiring me, it's my daughters. You know, many people put my daughters in this moment of my life, you know. So, just doing our best to them, you know, my daughters and our children, all the children, you know, just to take care of water, take care of lands, take care of nature, take care of life in general, my own life. You know, I don't want them to be worried for me. Oh, my dad is sick, he's doing bad, what do we can do? I want them to say well, my dad doesn't know how to take care of him and so I want them to learn how to take care of themselves.

Andrew Askaripour: 2:30:57

Yes yes.

Andrew Askaripour: 2:31:00

Beautiful. Well, thank you, brother. Thank you for all of the care that you give to your family. Thank you All of us who come here to Ha-Yelima, all of those who you have sat in ceremony with, all of those who you've learned ceremony from.

Salvador Villalobos: 2:31:15

Yeah.

Andrew Askaripour: 2:31:16

And on this platform now, with the Sacred Tobacco, with these sacred microphones and cameras there, giving all my thanks to you for your support in my life, for our friendship, for your brotherhood, thank you For all your love.

Salvador Villalobos: 2:31:30

No, thank you for giving me the chance and thanks for taking the time also to do these podcasts, and thanks for taking the time to be here, to be a good company, and thanks to those who can see and hear all these words that we are sharing. Yes, and it's not that I don't feel that I well, I know that each one of us, we have something to share, you know. So, thanks for giving me the chance to share what has been a little bit of my life, my experience, and if in some way it can inspire someone, thanks, take it. You know it's yours. Yeah and yeah, I just wish the best to everyone and to everyone, uh-huh, and the same for me. As you said, the best prayers I am doing to myself. I do it for everyone as well. You know, and really just wanted to, that we can create a beautiful reality, you know.

Salvador Villalobos: 2:32:48

And really, I feel that we are doing something good here, you know. So thanks again to all those who are part of this. You know who you are, that's right. And you know, if you want to be part of this in any way in your own places, do your best, you know. Create a good reality for you and your community, your families, that's right. What else we can do. You know we have so much potential, so don't waste time and energy and stupid things. You know.

Andrew Askaripour: 2:33:30

That's right.

Salvador Villalobos: 2:33:31

Focusing what is vital for us, don't want to lose hope, so the minimum effort that we can do to make it better it counts, you know. Yes, just to have the gratitude for every day and take every day as a new chance to do it better. You know, I really love that says thanks, because I am a better person than I was yesterday. And if we say it and do it every day, that's a lot. That's right, brother.

Andrew Askaripour: 2:34:17

That's right. Thank you so much.

Salvador Villalobos: 2:34:21

Salvo. So thank you, brother. Of course it's a pleasure, always, always.

Andrew Askaripour: 2:34:26

Looking forward to many more memories and much more time together.

Salvador Villalobos: 2:34:29

Yeah, let's create a good reality. Oh brother, oh, oh, thank you. Have a good time and see you soon.

Andrew Askaripour: 2:34:39

Thank you all so much for listening to today's episode with Salvador Villalobos.

Andrew Askaripour: 2:34:44

If you enjoyed this podcast and you want to learn more about Hayaulima or Salvador, you can visit their website at Hayaulimacom and you can also follow them on Instagram at mihayaulima. I really can't recommend this land and this family enough. Whether you're seeking just an opportunity to reconnect with nature, to get some quiet, peaceful time to yourself, or you want to go on a really deep plant medicine journey in a very safe and respectful way, hayaulima is the place to go. And if you want to continue to support this podcast, which so many of you have continued to express interest in, please leave a review, please share with friends or family and please reach out to me and let me know what you're enjoying about this podcast, what kind of other guests you may want to see and what changes could be made. So I really honor and appreciate everyone's opinions. With this platform, I really want to build this program together as a community, and I thank everyone who's been supporting me thus far on this journey. So thank you all. See you next time. Peace, thank you, thank you.